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	<title>Comments on: Liberty and liberty together</title>
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	<description>Secularism, religion, and the public sphere</description>
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		<title>By: Nicole LaConte</title>
		<link>http://blogs.ssrc.org/tif/2009/06/10/liberty-and-liberty-together/comment-page-1/#comment-7065</link>
		<dc:creator>Nicole LaConte</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Nov 2009 18:34:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.ssrc.org/tif/?p=1747#comment-7065</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The author roots American exceptionalism in liberty. Liberty, according to the author, preserves and celebrates differences by allowing Americans to live their lives according to their own personal beliefs. When Americans promote liberty, demonstrating patriotism, they feel united under one civil religion despite their differences.

I believe that the author approaches American exceptionalism with an idealistic perspective. According to the unfortunate history rather than the idealized future of the United States, American exceptionalism does not derive from liberty (inclusion), but from oppression (exclusion). Although the author imagines the American project as liberty expanding despite opposition, as in the Civil Rights Movement, I would argue for the opposite perspective: oppression remains despite opposition. 

Founded on the exclusion of non-male, non-white, non-wealthy, non-heterosexual, and non-Christian people from citizenship, the American nation epitomizes oppression. Preserving American values, therefore, involves preserving exclusion from liberty. We can imagine American history as the most powerful group, predominantly white and male, struggling to prevent disempowered groups from acquiring liberty. 

Despite disempowered people dedicating themselves to social movements, from the suffragettes to the Student Non-Violent Coordinating Committee, the empowered remain determined to prevent minorities from gaining liberty. Although women and African Americans earned the right to vote, the glass ceiling and the urban ghettoes still exist, impeding true liberty for minority groups. The heterosexual majority continues to withhold marriage rights from the non-heterosexual minority. “National exceptionalism,” the author writes, “is any nation’s compelling sense of purpose to recognize and promote human liberty.” On the basis of my examples above, I would re-define exceptionalism as the national attempt to restrict and confine liberty to the most powerful group.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The author roots American exceptionalism in liberty. Liberty, according to the author, preserves and celebrates differences by allowing Americans to live their lives according to their own personal beliefs. When Americans promote liberty, demonstrating patriotism, they feel united under one civil religion despite their differences.</p>
<p>I believe that the author approaches American exceptionalism with an idealistic perspective. According to the unfortunate history rather than the idealized future of the United States, American exceptionalism does not derive from liberty (inclusion), but from oppression (exclusion). Although the author imagines the American project as liberty expanding despite opposition, as in the Civil Rights Movement, I would argue for the opposite perspective: oppression remains despite opposition. </p>
<p>Founded on the exclusion of non-male, non-white, non-wealthy, non-heterosexual, and non-Christian people from citizenship, the American nation epitomizes oppression. Preserving American values, therefore, involves preserving exclusion from liberty. We can imagine American history as the most powerful group, predominantly white and male, struggling to prevent disempowered groups from acquiring liberty. </p>
<p>Despite disempowered people dedicating themselves to social movements, from the suffragettes to the Student Non-Violent Coordinating Committee, the empowered remain determined to prevent minorities from gaining liberty. Although women and African Americans earned the right to vote, the glass ceiling and the urban ghettoes still exist, impeding true liberty for minority groups. The heterosexual majority continues to withhold marriage rights from the non-heterosexual minority. “National exceptionalism,” the author writes, “is any nation’s compelling sense of purpose to recognize and promote human liberty.” On the basis of my examples above, I would re-define exceptionalism as the national attempt to restrict and confine liberty to the most powerful group.</p>
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		<title>By: Justin O'Shea</title>
		<link>http://blogs.ssrc.org/tif/2009/06/10/liberty-and-liberty-together/comment-page-1/#comment-7059</link>
		<dc:creator>Justin O'Shea</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Nov 2009 16:06:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.ssrc.org/tif/?p=1747#comment-7059</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Is it more patriotic to love one’s country or to practice dissent in order to improve it? This is one question that David Morgan attempts to address in his blog post. He divides American exceptionalism into two broad views, one of that first---nationalism that stresses American superiority and separation from the rest of the normal world, and the second---practicing civil disobedience in order to preserve the true liberty of the nation. This reminds me of the divide Sarah Palin spoke of in her campaign for the 2009 Presidential election, between the “real” American and the rest of the country – clearly implying the conservative Christian right. Are these individuals more patriotic because they agreed with the current ideals the then President embodied? Or were the dissenters, the ones who protested to the government’s policies in order to realize their concepts of what liberty in this country truly is? 

Morgan uses the example of the sacralization of the American flag, and the advocacy of creating an amendment to the constitution that bans its desecration. This would, as he discusses, remove the flag as a potential symbol for dissent, and creates it as an everlasting symbol embodying the ‘sacred’ of the constitution. He mentions the Supreme Court decision, West Virginia State Board of Education v. Barnette (1943), where a group of Jehovah’s Witnesses, who are, according to their doctrine, prohibited from revering any symbols, sued the School Board, who was attempting to force students to salute the American flag. This would obligate them to honor a symbol of American patriotism, something that is considered to be sacred in the religion of the American constitution. However, if this is antithetical to the individual’s personal faith, then it is clearly wrong to force this ideal onto them. The Court agreed, and ruled in favor of the Jehovah’s Witnesses. This helps exemplify the religious strife that occurs in the United States as a result of its freedom of religion. 

American civil religion is not private, it is both public and representational, and it is “an embodied, impassioned imagination of national community.” It is not supposed to supersede all faiths and tyrannically rule over them like a nationally established religion or a theocracy. Civil religion is supposed to “fit over them all like an apparatus that mimics their solemnity and ritual cohesion, emulates their themes of sacrifice, virtue, magnanimity, and devotional remembrance, but insists on dim theological tropes, the better to unify and to limn an overarching sublimity.” It is not supposed to, to put it colloquially, “step on the feet of” religion, like it did in the above example with Jehovah’s Witnesses. However, this was upheld by the Supreme Court decision, exemplifying America’s recognition of the place and legitimacy of civil religion.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Is it more patriotic to love one’s country or to practice dissent in order to improve it? This is one question that David Morgan attempts to address in his blog post. He divides American exceptionalism into two broad views, one of that first&#8212;nationalism that stresses American superiority and separation from the rest of the normal world, and the second&#8212;practicing civil disobedience in order to preserve the true liberty of the nation. This reminds me of the divide Sarah Palin spoke of in her campaign for the 2009 Presidential election, between the “real” American and the rest of the country – clearly implying the conservative Christian right. Are these individuals more patriotic because they agreed with the current ideals the then President embodied? Or were the dissenters, the ones who protested to the government’s policies in order to realize their concepts of what liberty in this country truly is? </p>
<p>Morgan uses the example of the sacralization of the American flag, and the advocacy of creating an amendment to the constitution that bans its desecration. This would, as he discusses, remove the flag as a potential symbol for dissent, and creates it as an everlasting symbol embodying the ‘sacred’ of the constitution. He mentions the Supreme Court decision, West Virginia State Board of Education v. Barnette (1943), where a group of Jehovah’s Witnesses, who are, according to their doctrine, prohibited from revering any symbols, sued the School Board, who was attempting to force students to salute the American flag. This would obligate them to honor a symbol of American patriotism, something that is considered to be sacred in the religion of the American constitution. However, if this is antithetical to the individual’s personal faith, then it is clearly wrong to force this ideal onto them. The Court agreed, and ruled in favor of the Jehovah’s Witnesses. This helps exemplify the religious strife that occurs in the United States as a result of its freedom of religion. </p>
<p>American civil religion is not private, it is both public and representational, and it is “an embodied, impassioned imagination of national community.” It is not supposed to supersede all faiths and tyrannically rule over them like a nationally established religion or a theocracy. Civil religion is supposed to “fit over them all like an apparatus that mimics their solemnity and ritual cohesion, emulates their themes of sacrifice, virtue, magnanimity, and devotional remembrance, but insists on dim theological tropes, the better to unify and to limn an overarching sublimity.” It is not supposed to, to put it colloquially, “step on the feet of” religion, like it did in the above example with Jehovah’s Witnesses. However, this was upheld by the Supreme Court decision, exemplifying America’s recognition of the place and legitimacy of civil religion.</p>
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