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	<title>Comments on: Buffered and porous selves</title>
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	<link>http://blogs.ssrc.org/tif/2008/09/02/buffered-and-porous-selves/</link>
	<description>Secularism, religion, and the public sphere</description>
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		<title>By: Robin Leslie</title>
		<link>http://blogs.ssrc.org/tif/2008/09/02/buffered-and-porous-selves/comment-page-1/#comment-4829</link>
		<dc:creator>Robin Leslie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Oct 2008 10:53:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.ssrc.org/tif/?p=338#comment-4829</guid>
		<description>Postmodernism evades the moral problem of the Common life and the Common Good, the dimension that situates the longings for immortality as exposed by Hannah Arendt in&lt;em&gt; The Human Condition&lt;/em&gt;. Taylor tries to avoid the extremes of Modernism and Postmodernism, and his ontology of the self goes some way to addressing the trap of the Cartesian self-enclosed consciousness that continues to lock us out of Paradise or any shared hopes of it! I found Taylor&#039;s &lt;em&gt;A Secular Age&lt;/em&gt; indispensable in continuing the unlocking of rationalism, but there is much further to go!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Postmodernism evades the moral problem of the Common life and the Common Good, the dimension that situates the longings for immortality as exposed by Hannah Arendt in<em> The Human Condition</em>. Taylor tries to avoid the extremes of Modernism and Postmodernism, and his ontology of the self goes some way to addressing the trap of the Cartesian self-enclosed consciousness that continues to lock us out of Paradise or any shared hopes of it! I found Taylor&#8217;s <em>A Secular Age</em> indispensable in continuing the unlocking of rationalism, but there is much further to go!</p>
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		<title>By: Peter Morgan</title>
		<link>http://blogs.ssrc.org/tif/2008/09/02/buffered-and-porous-selves/comment-page-1/#comment-4825</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter Morgan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Oct 2008 13:18:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.ssrc.org/tif/?p=338#comment-4825</guid>
		<description>Modernity distanced us from immediacy of our experience? Does not the post-modern critique distance us from immediacy of our certainty?

There are gaps in the world again. Post-modernism is flawed in being non-constructive, except that it releases us. Yes, the release is exaggerated, but the post-modern critique has enough force that we cannot return to Positivist certainty.

Very nice article, until the diagnosis of the present.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Modernity distanced us from immediacy of our experience? Does not the post-modern critique distance us from immediacy of our certainty?</p>
<p>There are gaps in the world again. Post-modernism is flawed in being non-constructive, except that it releases us. Yes, the release is exaggerated, but the post-modern critique has enough force that we cannot return to Positivist certainty.</p>
<p>Very nice article, until the diagnosis of the present.</p>
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		<title>By: Robin Leslie</title>
		<link>http://blogs.ssrc.org/tif/2008/09/02/buffered-and-porous-selves/comment-page-1/#comment-4824</link>
		<dc:creator>Robin Leslie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Oct 2008 11:38:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.ssrc.org/tif/?p=338#comment-4824</guid>
		<description>Perhaps I should just add that enchantment is wonder at being here at all viz. that there is something rather than nothing, and as such is the gift of what is called in theological circles &#039;prevenient grace&#039;. We can discover this as co-creators in the exposition and unveiling of beauty in the world. That ugliness is the product of vice and beauty of virtue is something that is staring us in the face in our artificial world. The view that enchantment &#039;remains with us in all too recognisable a form&#039; is obscure to say the least! Is this pure immanentism, rationalism or what?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Perhaps I should just add that enchantment is wonder at being here at all viz. that there is something rather than nothing, and as such is the gift of what is called in theological circles &#8216;prevenient grace&#8217;. We can discover this as co-creators in the exposition and unveiling of beauty in the world. That ugliness is the product of vice and beauty of virtue is something that is staring us in the face in our artificial world. The view that enchantment &#8216;remains with us in all too recognisable a form&#8217; is obscure to say the least! Is this pure immanentism, rationalism or what?</p>
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		<title>By: Robin Leslie</title>
		<link>http://blogs.ssrc.org/tif/2008/09/02/buffered-and-porous-selves/comment-page-1/#comment-4815</link>
		<dc:creator>Robin Leslie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Oct 2008 12:32:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.ssrc.org/tif/?p=338#comment-4815</guid>
		<description>Ezequiel da Silva either knows something most of us contemporaries don&#039;t, or he/she is mythologising the present, that is offering us the presentist re-rendering of &quot;the end of history.&quot; Since the neo-liberal presentist myth is now in the shards of its own ruins, where is the enchantment da Silva talks of? It is simply incomprehensible to talk of enchantment as though such a state can be constructed or invented or &quot;changed&quot; by us! The real in-itself viz. God cannot be constructed, but can be discovered. As to whether we can truthfully &quot;represent&quot; it as &quot;the holy&quot; or &quot;sacred&quot; is an interesting question. Religion has always held within itself a &quot;surplus of meaning&quot; overspilling the sacred container of representation which emerges in everyday life and worship. However we cannot simply &quot;change&quot; such enchantment, no matter how immanent nor transcendent!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ezequiel da Silva either knows something most of us contemporaries don&#8217;t, or he/she is mythologising the present, that is offering us the presentist re-rendering of &#8220;the end of history.&#8221; Since the neo-liberal presentist myth is now in the shards of its own ruins, where is the enchantment da Silva talks of? It is simply incomprehensible to talk of enchantment as though such a state can be constructed or invented or &#8220;changed&#8221; by us! The real in-itself viz. God cannot be constructed, but can be discovered. As to whether we can truthfully &#8220;represent&#8221; it as &#8220;the holy&#8221; or &#8220;sacred&#8221; is an interesting question. Religion has always held within itself a &#8220;surplus of meaning&#8221; overspilling the sacred container of representation which emerges in everyday life and worship. However we cannot simply &#8220;change&#8221; such enchantment, no matter how immanent nor transcendent!</p>
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		<title>By: Ezequiel Mota Moreira da Silva</title>
		<link>http://blogs.ssrc.org/tif/2008/09/02/buffered-and-porous-selves/comment-page-1/#comment-4788</link>
		<dc:creator>Ezequiel Mota Moreira da Silva</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Oct 2008 20:51:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.ssrc.org/tif/?p=338#comment-4788</guid>
		<description>Dear Professor Charles Taylor,

I am tempted to say the following, with the greatest respect: I  believe you are mythologising the past. We do live in an enchanted world. Today&#039;s enchantment is different, to be sure. Does it make sense to make such a general claim?: &quot;we live in a much less enchanted world.&quot;  Enchantment has simply changed, dear professor. It remains with us in all too recognisable a form.

All the best.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear Professor Charles Taylor,</p>
<p>I am tempted to say the following, with the greatest respect: I  believe you are mythologising the past. We do live in an enchanted world. Today&#8217;s enchantment is different, to be sure. Does it make sense to make such a general claim?: &#8220;we live in a much less enchanted world.&#8221;  Enchantment has simply changed, dear professor. It remains with us in all too recognisable a form.</p>
<p>All the best.</p>
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		<title>By: Robin Leslie</title>
		<link>http://blogs.ssrc.org/tif/2008/09/02/buffered-and-porous-selves/comment-page-1/#comment-4606</link>
		<dc:creator>Robin Leslie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Sep 2008 10:21:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.ssrc.org/tif/?p=338#comment-4606</guid>
		<description>What about the knowledge that faith brings, imagination, sensibility, insight,
apprehension, feeling? There is an undeveloped cosmos in all of this meta-scientific knowledge, the mystery of God and humankind!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What about the knowledge that faith brings, imagination, sensibility, insight,<br />
apprehension, feeling? There is an undeveloped cosmos in all of this meta-scientific knowledge, the mystery of God and humankind!</p>
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		<title>By: James Dirlam</title>
		<link>http://blogs.ssrc.org/tif/2008/09/02/buffered-and-porous-selves/comment-page-1/#comment-4568</link>
		<dc:creator>James Dirlam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Sep 2008 19:11:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.ssrc.org/tif/?p=338#comment-4568</guid>
		<description>Most stimulating article.  Reminds me of Julian Jaynes&#039; &quot;Bicameral Mind&quot; concept.  

We moderns question, and buffer ourselves.  Perhaps our questioning and empiricism have given us enough explanations of natural phenomena for us to question even those phenomenon that are  unexplained, such as God experiences that still haunt us.

Terrence McKenna posits a whole realm of biological intelligences that communicate with us through chemicals. It may be that we have buffered ourselves from interactions with the biosphere well enough to ignore it except by choice through ingestion. Certainly, the world is now, and always has been, dominated by organisms of one cell and smaller.  To assume they have no influence on consciousness denies our known experiences with phytochemical hallucinogens.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Most stimulating article.  Reminds me of Julian Jaynes&#8217; &#8220;Bicameral Mind&#8221; concept.  </p>
<p>We moderns question, and buffer ourselves.  Perhaps our questioning and empiricism have given us enough explanations of natural phenomena for us to question even those phenomenon that are  unexplained, such as God experiences that still haunt us.</p>
<p>Terrence McKenna posits a whole realm of biological intelligences that communicate with us through chemicals. It may be that we have buffered ourselves from interactions with the biosphere well enough to ignore it except by choice through ingestion. Certainly, the world is now, and always has been, dominated by organisms of one cell and smaller.  To assume they have no influence on consciousness denies our known experiences with phytochemical hallucinogens.</p>
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		<title>By: Christian Solberg</title>
		<link>http://blogs.ssrc.org/tif/2008/09/02/buffered-and-porous-selves/comment-page-1/#comment-4567</link>
		<dc:creator>Christian Solberg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Sep 2008 11:19:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.ssrc.org/tif/?p=338#comment-4567</guid>
		<description>I originally posted this comment on the &lt;a href=&quot;http://somatosphere.blogspot.com/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Somatosphere&lt;/a&gt; blog, but I&#039;ll re-post it here:

This is an interesting line of thought, but I&#039;m not so sure that it&#039;s altogether true. The work of Paul Rozin and colleagues shows clearly that modern westerners still harbour behaviourally important ideas about the moral significance of inanimate matter. In essence, a lot of &quot;moderns&quot; implicitly think along the lines of sympathetic magic, such that, for example, clothing worn by nominally evil or bad people are perceived to &quot;magically&quot; take on some of those moral qualities. Check out &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.psych.upenn.edu/bio.php?id=34&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;his website&lt;/a&gt; for references. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I originally posted this comment on the <a href="http://somatosphere.blogspot.com/" rel="nofollow">Somatosphere</a> blog, but I&#8217;ll re-post it here:</p>
<p>This is an interesting line of thought, but I&#8217;m not so sure that it&#8217;s altogether true. The work of Paul Rozin and colleagues shows clearly that modern westerners still harbour behaviourally important ideas about the moral significance of inanimate matter. In essence, a lot of &#8220;moderns&#8221; implicitly think along the lines of sympathetic magic, such that, for example, clothing worn by nominally evil or bad people are perceived to &#8220;magically&#8221; take on some of those moral qualities. Check out <a href="http://www.psych.upenn.edu/bio.php?id=34" rel="nofollow">his website</a> for references.</p>
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		<title>By: Robin Leslie</title>
		<link>http://blogs.ssrc.org/tif/2008/09/02/buffered-and-porous-selves/comment-page-1/#comment-4556</link>
		<dc:creator>Robin Leslie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Sep 2008 12:47:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.ssrc.org/tif/?p=338#comment-4556</guid>
		<description>It is the science and the technology reinforced by the therapeutic state that chain us to modern and postmodern psychoses and make a fetish of power and control, and it is these factors that embed and sustain the buffeted self. The transformation that is needed can only be found in a new natural and human ecology rooted in a shared spirituality. Given that there are different and diverse spiritualities and different and incompatible ways of life (not lifestyles, which is a neo-liberal commodity fetish), the ecosystem must play a definitive part in any future notion of self. I find Taylor&#039;s ideas of porous self and buffered self very helpful, and from a Roman Catholic perspective I would develop these in the context of Thomas Merton&#039;s &quot;true self.&quot; The transformation required today is as drastic and thoroughgoing as the calamity we face, though there will inevitably be some historical continuities.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is the science and the technology reinforced by the therapeutic state that chain us to modern and postmodern psychoses and make a fetish of power and control, and it is these factors that embed and sustain the buffeted self. The transformation that is needed can only be found in a new natural and human ecology rooted in a shared spirituality. Given that there are different and diverse spiritualities and different and incompatible ways of life (not lifestyles, which is a neo-liberal commodity fetish), the ecosystem must play a definitive part in any future notion of self. I find Taylor&#8217;s ideas of porous self and buffered self very helpful, and from a Roman Catholic perspective I would develop these in the context of Thomas Merton&#8217;s &#8220;true self.&#8221; The transformation required today is as drastic and thoroughgoing as the calamity we face, though there will inevitably be some historical continuities.</p>
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		<title>By: Brad Burge</title>
		<link>http://blogs.ssrc.org/tif/2008/09/02/buffered-and-porous-selves/comment-page-1/#comment-4555</link>
		<dc:creator>Brad Burge</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Sep 2008 01:47:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.ssrc.org/tif/?p=338#comment-4555</guid>
		<description>Thanks for this great article.  I&#039;m wary of epochal proclamations, but by highlighting the experiential nature of the shift/loss/transformation in modernity, it seems to me that you&#039;ve made some excellent points.

I wonder, however, whether the sharp demarcation between self and world that you describe, and the disenchantment that Weber described so long ago, represents an actual shift in the nature of human experience, or whether it has instead become an alibi for much more powerful forces.  Is the modern self truly nonporous, territorialized, and closed?  Is the cybernetic metaphor of control all that is left to us?  Or are we just as enchanted, just as confident in the mystical power of our science and our tools, as we were millennia ago?

When we &quot;disengage&quot; from the world by embracing a metaphysics of control and direct causality, I&#039;m not sure that we are truly doing so.  Our technologies, perhaps what Foucault would have called &quot;technologies of self&quot; in an earlier biomedical era, in fact open us up to all kinds of interventions and blur the boundaries between self and other, culture and nature.  But could it in fact be argued that bodily technologies---drugs, prosthetics, medicine---require an intimate, even porous engagement with the world around us?

There seems to be something different about the experience of difference and boundaries in modernity, but I&#039;m not sure we are any more demarcated or set apart than we were long ago.  Thanks again for such a thoughtful piece.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for this great article.  I&#8217;m wary of epochal proclamations, but by highlighting the experiential nature of the shift/loss/transformation in modernity, it seems to me that you&#8217;ve made some excellent points.</p>
<p>I wonder, however, whether the sharp demarcation between self and world that you describe, and the disenchantment that Weber described so long ago, represents an actual shift in the nature of human experience, or whether it has instead become an alibi for much more powerful forces.  Is the modern self truly nonporous, territorialized, and closed?  Is the cybernetic metaphor of control all that is left to us?  Or are we just as enchanted, just as confident in the mystical power of our science and our tools, as we were millennia ago?</p>
<p>When we &#8220;disengage&#8221; from the world by embracing a metaphysics of control and direct causality, I&#8217;m not sure that we are truly doing so.  Our technologies, perhaps what Foucault would have called &#8220;technologies of self&#8221; in an earlier biomedical era, in fact open us up to all kinds of interventions and blur the boundaries between self and other, culture and nature.  But could it in fact be argued that bodily technologies&#8212;drugs, prosthetics, medicine&#8212;require an intimate, even porous engagement with the world around us?</p>
<p>There seems to be something different about the experience of difference and boundaries in modernity, but I&#8217;m not sure we are any more demarcated or set apart than we were long ago.  Thanks again for such a thoughtful piece.</p>
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