<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Who’s afraid of sociology?</title>
	<atom:link href="http://blogs.ssrc.org/tif/2008/08/15/whos-afraid-of-sociology/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://blogs.ssrc.org/tif/2008/08/15/whos-afraid-of-sociology/</link>
	<description>Secularism, religion, and the public sphere</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Thu, 19 Nov 2009 15:29:19 -0600</lastBuildDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4</generator>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
		<item>
		<title>By: Miranda Klaver</title>
		<link>http://blogs.ssrc.org/tif/2008/08/15/whos-afraid-of-sociology/comment-page-1/#comment-4553</link>
		<dc:creator>Miranda Klaver</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Sep 2008 07:21:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.ssrc.org/tif/?p=327#comment-4553</guid>
		<description>&quot;There is another kind of vague breadth in recent theological definitions of &#039;evangelicalism&#039; that concerns me---namely, the demographic sleight of hand that enfolds Pentecostals, charismatics, and the explosion of &#039;world Christianity&#039; under the label &#039;evangelical.&#039;&quot;

James, in your critique of a too broad definition of evangelicalism, I wonder how you would define Pentecostalism from a sociological perspective. Is there a Pentecostal style that is distinct from what you describe as evangelical?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;There is another kind of vague breadth in recent theological definitions of &#8216;evangelicalism&#8217; that concerns me&#8212;namely, the demographic sleight of hand that enfolds Pentecostals, charismatics, and the explosion of &#8216;world Christianity&#8217; under the label &#8216;evangelical.&#8217;&#8221;</p>
<p>James, in your critique of a too broad definition of evangelicalism, I wonder how you would define Pentecostalism from a sociological perspective. Is there a Pentecostal style that is distinct from what you describe as evangelical?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Richard Heyduck</title>
		<link>http://blogs.ssrc.org/tif/2008/08/15/whos-afraid-of-sociology/comment-page-1/#comment-4521</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard Heyduck</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Aug 2008 20:27:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.ssrc.org/tif/?p=327#comment-4521</guid>
		<description>One of the tings a sociological approach like this might accomplish is not the elimination of theological criteria, but the broadening of what we mean by theological. As a modern movement, evangelicalism is prone to the modern reduction of theology to the propositional. Even if one concedes to all the propositions held by evangelicals (if there is a common set anywhere), that is an impoverished version of the faith that will not sustain itself across the generations - if even in the life of a single person. 

Adding in a sociological component might allow us to see what evangelicals want to do in light of Billy Abraham&#039;s Canonical Theism project, a recovery of non-propositional elements of the faith that make it truly sustainable.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One of the tings a sociological approach like this might accomplish is not the elimination of theological criteria, but the broadening of what we mean by theological. As a modern movement, evangelicalism is prone to the modern reduction of theology to the propositional. Even if one concedes to all the propositions held by evangelicals (if there is a common set anywhere), that is an impoverished version of the faith that will not sustain itself across the generations &#8211; if even in the life of a single person. </p>
<p>Adding in a sociological component might allow us to see what evangelicals want to do in light of Billy Abraham&#8217;s Canonical Theism project, a recovery of non-propositional elements of the faith that make it truly sustainable.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Joy Fuller</title>
		<link>http://blogs.ssrc.org/tif/2008/08/15/whos-afraid-of-sociology/comment-page-1/#comment-4519</link>
		<dc:creator>Joy Fuller</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Aug 2008 21:40:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.ssrc.org/tif/?p=327#comment-4519</guid>
		<description>I came here from Digby through Beliefnet’s Progressive Revival blog (which is a long journey!).  So I’m not going to talk about St. Augustine.

You’ve put your finger on something that I as an ex-Evangelical, have been trying to convey to my non-Evangelical friends for years. Being an Evangelical in the U.S., in the late 20th-early 21st century, involves more than theology. It is also a lifestyle. 

As an amateur sociologist (aren’t we all?), my concept of the relationship between the theological and the sociological is something like this:  The theological definition provides a floor – you cannot be admitted to the Evangelical club without being able to affirm something like the seven beliefs listed in the Evangelical Manifesto, out loud, in front of people. But that isn’t enough. You also have to join the sociologically defined group, which requires adopting certain folkways, patterns of speech, dress, habits, activities and so on. Because these sociological markers are more visible to others than theological commitments, they become a shorthand way to recognize other Evangelicals, used both by Evangelicals themselves and by outsiders. As I know from my own history as a former Evangelical, failing to adopt these folkways is every bit as damaging to one’s perceived identity as a true Christian as standing up in the middle of the 11:00 service and expressing doubts about the Trinity would be.

At the same time, these sociological markers are an outgrowth of the baseline theological beliefs, although not a necessary outgrowth. In other words, if you become an Evangelical in the middle of a forest with no one to hear (except God!), do you really become an Evangelical, even if you sign on to the Evangelical Manifesto? The new Evangelical, sitting alone in the forest, wouldn’t necessarily come up with the same sociological markers as did his or her Evangelical counterparts back at the megachurch. The lone Evangelical won’t spontaneously start listening to Keith Green (he’s from my era, too) or today’s equivalent. On the other hand, I think the lone Evangelical would start setting up some structure, or test, or marker, to help determine Who is on the Lord’s Side and who isn’t. 

Of course, one danger of such a sociological shorthand is that Evangelicals become mind readers, believing themselves able to tell who is really a Christian through the outward manifestations, even over the protests of the person himself or herself. I see both Barrack Obama at Saddleback and Joshua Hochschild at Wheaton as running afoul of this Evangelical clairvoyance. And, unless the congregation were in a very generous mood, a Pentecostal believer from Nigeria would face some serious doubts of both the theological and sociological kind were he or she to be plunked down in the middle of an American Evangelical church.

So I agree that you cannot ignore the sociological element of the definition, but I think it is bound up with the theological, to the point that it is very difficult to separate the two.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I came here from Digby through Beliefnet’s Progressive Revival blog (which is a long journey!).  So I’m not going to talk about St. Augustine.</p>
<p>You’ve put your finger on something that I as an ex-Evangelical, have been trying to convey to my non-Evangelical friends for years. Being an Evangelical in the U.S., in the late 20th-early 21st century, involves more than theology. It is also a lifestyle. </p>
<p>As an amateur sociologist (aren’t we all?), my concept of the relationship between the theological and the sociological is something like this:  The theological definition provides a floor – you cannot be admitted to the Evangelical club without being able to affirm something like the seven beliefs listed in the Evangelical Manifesto, out loud, in front of people. But that isn’t enough. You also have to join the sociologically defined group, which requires adopting certain folkways, patterns of speech, dress, habits, activities and so on. Because these sociological markers are more visible to others than theological commitments, they become a shorthand way to recognize other Evangelicals, used both by Evangelicals themselves and by outsiders. As I know from my own history as a former Evangelical, failing to adopt these folkways is every bit as damaging to one’s perceived identity as a true Christian as standing up in the middle of the 11:00 service and expressing doubts about the Trinity would be.</p>
<p>At the same time, these sociological markers are an outgrowth of the baseline theological beliefs, although not a necessary outgrowth. In other words, if you become an Evangelical in the middle of a forest with no one to hear (except God!), do you really become an Evangelical, even if you sign on to the Evangelical Manifesto? The new Evangelical, sitting alone in the forest, wouldn’t necessarily come up with the same sociological markers as did his or her Evangelical counterparts back at the megachurch. The lone Evangelical won’t spontaneously start listening to Keith Green (he’s from my era, too) or today’s equivalent. On the other hand, I think the lone Evangelical would start setting up some structure, or test, or marker, to help determine Who is on the Lord’s Side and who isn’t. </p>
<p>Of course, one danger of such a sociological shorthand is that Evangelicals become mind readers, believing themselves able to tell who is really a Christian through the outward manifestations, even over the protests of the person himself or herself. I see both Barrack Obama at Saddleback and Joshua Hochschild at Wheaton as running afoul of this Evangelical clairvoyance. And, unless the congregation were in a very generous mood, a Pentecostal believer from Nigeria would face some serious doubts of both the theological and sociological kind were he or she to be plunked down in the middle of an American Evangelical church.</p>
<p>So I agree that you cannot ignore the sociological element of the definition, but I think it is bound up with the theological, to the point that it is very difficult to separate the two.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Evan Kuehn</title>
		<link>http://blogs.ssrc.org/tif/2008/08/15/whos-afraid-of-sociology/comment-page-1/#comment-4515</link>
		<dc:creator>Evan Kuehn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Aug 2008 19:40:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.ssrc.org/tif/?p=327#comment-4515</guid>
		<description>I think the problem with Smith&#039;s comparison of &quot;evangelical&quot; to &quot;Catholic&quot; is not his theological characterization of Catholic identity in itself.  He quite clearly references Augustine, conjuring up memory of the Donatist controversy of North Africa where Catholic identity was most certainly concerned with theological orthodoxy, or at least the ecclesial matrix within which that orthodoxy could be obtained (and such an ecclesiological standard isn&#039;t really &quot;sociological,&quot; at least not in Augustine and not as Smith uses the term here).  So this doctrinal focus isn&#039;t distinctively evangelical as opposed to Catholic.

But that brings us to where I think Smith might have erred somewhat in his evangelical/Catholic comparison.  Are evangelicals really intending to distinguish themselves from the &quot;Catholic&quot; identity that Smith references... the &quot;older, more ecumenical&quot; one?  ...the one that Augustine preaches?  I don&#039;t think so.  That evangelicals might try to distinguish evangelicalism from post-Reformation &quot;Catholic&quot; identity is more on the mark, but then, as Coverston points out, in looking at this Catholicism we lose the very doctrinal focus that Augustine can provide in identifying the catholic.  

Whether evangelicalism recovers Augustine&#039;s sense is another question---certainly it tries, and perhaps the annoyingly broad theological definitions of evangelicalism are somewhat redeemed by the fact that what they&#039;re attempting is a sort of catholicity. That they attempt this from denominational or sectarian beginnings (sociological or theological, call them what you will) obviously makes such an attempt a difficult sell to the non-evangelical, just as catholicity can be a difficult sell to the evangelical herself.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think the problem with Smith&#8217;s comparison of &#8220;evangelical&#8221; to &#8220;Catholic&#8221; is not his theological characterization of Catholic identity in itself.  He quite clearly references Augustine, conjuring up memory of the Donatist controversy of North Africa where Catholic identity was most certainly concerned with theological orthodoxy, or at least the ecclesial matrix within which that orthodoxy could be obtained (and such an ecclesiological standard isn&#8217;t really &#8220;sociological,&#8221; at least not in Augustine and not as Smith uses the term here).  So this doctrinal focus isn&#8217;t distinctively evangelical as opposed to Catholic.</p>
<p>But that brings us to where I think Smith might have erred somewhat in his evangelical/Catholic comparison.  Are evangelicals really intending to distinguish themselves from the &#8220;Catholic&#8221; identity that Smith references&#8230; the &#8220;older, more ecumenical&#8221; one?  &#8230;the one that Augustine preaches?  I don&#8217;t think so.  That evangelicals might try to distinguish evangelicalism from post-Reformation &#8220;Catholic&#8221; identity is more on the mark, but then, as Coverston points out, in looking at this Catholicism we lose the very doctrinal focus that Augustine can provide in identifying the catholic.  </p>
<p>Whether evangelicalism recovers Augustine&#8217;s sense is another question&#8212;certainly it tries, and perhaps the annoyingly broad theological definitions of evangelicalism are somewhat redeemed by the fact that what they&#8217;re attempting is a sort of catholicity. That they attempt this from denominational or sectarian beginnings (sociological or theological, call them what you will) obviously makes such an attempt a difficult sell to the non-evangelical, just as catholicity can be a difficult sell to the evangelical herself.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: James K.A. Smith</title>
		<link>http://blogs.ssrc.org/tif/2008/08/15/whos-afraid-of-sociology/comment-page-1/#comment-4509</link>
		<dc:creator>James K.A. Smith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Aug 2008 14:51:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.ssrc.org/tif/?p=327#comment-4509</guid>
		<description>Both good comments to help me hone what is an admittedly fuzzy post, meant to articulate an intuition more than lay out a thesis.  Let me say a couple of things in reply:

Ad Jensen: You&#039;re certainly right that the &quot;culture&quot; of evangelicalism emerged from what was a decidedly theological identity, viz., a robust Protestantism (which often saw the magisterial Reformation as not going far enough).  This often and usually included a central focus on the doctrine of justification, or found expression in the concern that one has &quot;a personal relationship with Jesus.&quot;  In either case, there is a noted emphasis on personal, individual salvation as an &lt;em&gt;interior&lt;/em&gt; work.  This has at least two consequences: first, it means that, for evangelicals, there IS salvation outside the church; or, in other words, the community that is the ecclesia does not mediate salvation in any way.  Instead, church is a kind of encouragement club for saved individuals.  Second, this thin ecclesiology has usually been attended by a suspicion of &quot;external&quot; matters of ritual, liturgy, and the sacraments, as well as a general disparaging of that long period between &quot;the New Testament Church&quot; and the Reformation.  (Surely one of the most notable and encouraging developments in evangelical theology over the past ten years has been a renewed interest in the Church Fathers and even medieval theology.)

So what?  My concern, I guess, is that evangelicalism as a &lt;em&gt;theological&lt;/em&gt; identity affirms, celebrates, and amplifies these theological distinctives in a way that construes them as the &lt;em&gt;only&lt;/em&gt; way to think about Christian faith, and does so in a way that implicitly or explicitly disparages the Catholic theological tradition.  In short, I have second thoughts about the Reformation for what, in evangelical-speak, I think are &quot;biblical&quot; reasons.

Perhaps this is just a long, rambling way of trying to say that I&#039;m a reluctant Protestant whereas most who are ardent supporters of a theological definition of evangelicalism are often quite enthusiastic Protestants.  But nonetheless, I know where I come from, recognize how my imagination has been shaped, and own up to the fact that I am &quot;evangelical&quot; in terms of my (sociological) formation.

Ad Coverston: Very fair point.  You&#039;re right; I regrettably fell into an old evangelical habit (thus proving my point! ;-) by fixating on the doctrinal.  In fact, I&#039;ve just finished a book that makes a case for &lt;em&gt;not&lt;/em&gt; doing this.  Instead, like you suggest, I argue that &quot;the Catholic faith&quot; is primarily carried in a set of liturgical practices that form our imaginations before it&#039;s ever articulated in doctrines (see George Weigel&#039;s wonderful little book, &lt;em&gt;Letters to a Young Catholic&lt;/em&gt; on this point).  I hope you can see this already in the post when I suggest that we ought to focus on the &quot;implicit&quot; theology that is carried in evangelical practices.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Both good comments to help me hone what is an admittedly fuzzy post, meant to articulate an intuition more than lay out a thesis.  Let me say a couple of things in reply:</p>
<p>Ad Jensen: You&#8217;re certainly right that the &#8220;culture&#8221; of evangelicalism emerged from what was a decidedly theological identity, viz., a robust Protestantism (which often saw the magisterial Reformation as not going far enough).  This often and usually included a central focus on the doctrine of justification, or found expression in the concern that one has &#8220;a personal relationship with Jesus.&#8221;  In either case, there is a noted emphasis on personal, individual salvation as an <em>interior</em> work.  This has at least two consequences: first, it means that, for evangelicals, there IS salvation outside the church; or, in other words, the community that is the ecclesia does not mediate salvation in any way.  Instead, church is a kind of encouragement club for saved individuals.  Second, this thin ecclesiology has usually been attended by a suspicion of &#8220;external&#8221; matters of ritual, liturgy, and the sacraments, as well as a general disparaging of that long period between &#8220;the New Testament Church&#8221; and the Reformation.  (Surely one of the most notable and encouraging developments in evangelical theology over the past ten years has been a renewed interest in the Church Fathers and even medieval theology.)</p>
<p>So what?  My concern, I guess, is that evangelicalism as a <em>theological</em> identity affirms, celebrates, and amplifies these theological distinctives in a way that construes them as the <em>only</em> way to think about Christian faith, and does so in a way that implicitly or explicitly disparages the Catholic theological tradition.  In short, I have second thoughts about the Reformation for what, in evangelical-speak, I think are &#8220;biblical&#8221; reasons.</p>
<p>Perhaps this is just a long, rambling way of trying to say that I&#8217;m a reluctant Protestant whereas most who are ardent supporters of a theological definition of evangelicalism are often quite enthusiastic Protestants.  But nonetheless, I know where I come from, recognize how my imagination has been shaped, and own up to the fact that I am &#8220;evangelical&#8221; in terms of my (sociological) formation.</p>
<p>Ad Coverston: Very fair point.  You&#8217;re right; I regrettably fell into an old evangelical habit (thus proving my point! <img src='http://blogs.ssrc.org/tif/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' />  by fixating on the doctrinal.  In fact, I&#8217;ve just finished a book that makes a case for <em>not</em> doing this.  Instead, like you suggest, I argue that &#8220;the Catholic faith&#8221; is primarily carried in a set of liturgical practices that form our imaginations before it&#8217;s ever articulated in doctrines (see George Weigel&#8217;s wonderful little book, <em>Letters to a Young Catholic</em> on this point).  I hope you can see this already in the post when I suggest that we ought to focus on the &#8220;implicit&#8221; theology that is carried in evangelical practices.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Harry Coverston</title>
		<link>http://blogs.ssrc.org/tif/2008/08/15/whos-afraid-of-sociology/comment-page-1/#comment-4503</link>
		<dc:creator>Harry Coverston</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Aug 2008 22:35:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.ssrc.org/tif/?p=327#comment-4503</guid>
		<description>&quot;Theological definitions of evangelicalism assume that there is something about being &#039;evangelical&#039; that is different from being &#039;Catholic,&#039; an older, more ecumenical label that was meant to indicate a commitment to a certain core orthodoxy (as when St. Augustine the preacher would admonish his congregation, &#039;Remember, you are Catholic…&#039;).&quot;

James, this is a place where I think your evangelicalism probably prevents your from seeing through sociological eyes. Defining catholicism theologically as &quot;a commitment to a certain core orthodoxy&quot; sounds awfully Protestant. If you want to try and get into the mindset of catholicism as a sociological ideal type, you might look at the work of David Tracy and his distinction of the dialectical imagination of Augustinian religions, predominately though not exclusively Protestant, and the analogical imagination, predominately though not exclusively Catholic. A more accessible and sociological appropriation of this model has been provided by Andrew Greeley&#039;s many works on the Catholic imagination.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Theological definitions of evangelicalism assume that there is something about being &#8216;evangelical&#8217; that is different from being &#8216;Catholic,&#8217; an older, more ecumenical label that was meant to indicate a commitment to a certain core orthodoxy (as when St. Augustine the preacher would admonish his congregation, &#8216;Remember, you are Catholic…&#8217;).&#8221;</p>
<p>James, this is a place where I think your evangelicalism probably prevents your from seeing through sociological eyes. Defining catholicism theologically as &#8220;a commitment to a certain core orthodoxy&#8221; sounds awfully Protestant. If you want to try and get into the mindset of catholicism as a sociological ideal type, you might look at the work of David Tracy and his distinction of the dialectical imagination of Augustinian religions, predominately though not exclusively Protestant, and the analogical imagination, predominately though not exclusively Catholic. A more accessible and sociological appropriation of this model has been provided by Andrew Greeley&#8217;s many works on the Catholic imagination.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Michael Jensen</title>
		<link>http://blogs.ssrc.org/tif/2008/08/15/whos-afraid-of-sociology/comment-page-1/#comment-4502</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Jensen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Aug 2008 17:08:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.ssrc.org/tif/?p=327#comment-4502</guid>
		<description>Hmm. The two arguments seem to be: 

1) The theological definitions are deceptively broad (to which I say, narrow them! Pentecostalism should not be seen as a subset of evangelicalism in any case). 

and

2) You don&#039;t like celebrating theological distinctives, or, perhaps, you are embarassed by the claimed theological distinctives of evangelicalism... (to which I say, does evangelicalism not have something THEOLOGICAL to say, that Catholicism and liberalism won&#039;t or can&#039;t---but should---say?)

It seems to me that to allow this sociological definition is to concede the theological ground somewhat, which would be a shame. You can have the theological definition without the abuses you mention.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hmm. The two arguments seem to be: </p>
<p>1) The theological definitions are deceptively broad (to which I say, narrow them! Pentecostalism should not be seen as a subset of evangelicalism in any case). </p>
<p>and</p>
<p>2) You don&#8217;t like celebrating theological distinctives, or, perhaps, you are embarassed by the claimed theological distinctives of evangelicalism&#8230; (to which I say, does evangelicalism not have something THEOLOGICAL to say, that Catholicism and liberalism won&#8217;t or can&#8217;t&#8212;but should&#8212;say?)</p>
<p>It seems to me that to allow this sociological definition is to concede the theological ground somewhat, which would be a shame. You can have the theological definition without the abuses you mention.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
