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	<title>Comments on: On Listening</title>
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	<link>http://blogs.ssrc.org/darfur/2009/07/07/on-listening/</link>
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		<title>By: Rob Crilly</title>
		<link>http://blogs.ssrc.org/darfur/2009/07/07/on-listening/comment-page-1/#comment-4179</link>
		<dc:creator>Rob Crilly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Jul 2009 06:18:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.ssrc.org/darfur/?p=945#comment-4179</guid>
		<description>I think this is a fascinating question and one that I have grappled with in my reporting from Darfur. In the run-up to the ICC issuing a warrant for the arrest of President Bashir I was conscious of Nick Kristof and George Clooney returning from the camps in Chad where refugees had apparently been demanding justice. It seemed to me that they had received the answer they were looking for.

I set out to prove them wrong. But over the border in Darfur it was very difficult to work out how supportive the IDPs were of the ICC. Govt threats and intimidation made it hard for people to speak freely. The best I could come up with was that people wanted to go home. It was tempting to interpret this as placing peace ahead of justice but this would have been placing words in their mouths.

I don&#039;t have any answers about the best way to get around these problems but this post brilliantly flags up the difficulties.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think this is a fascinating question and one that I have grappled with in my reporting from Darfur. In the run-up to the ICC issuing a warrant for the arrest of President Bashir I was conscious of Nick Kristof and George Clooney returning from the camps in Chad where refugees had apparently been demanding justice. It seemed to me that they had received the answer they were looking for.</p>
<p>I set out to prove them wrong. But over the border in Darfur it was very difficult to work out how supportive the IDPs were of the ICC. Govt threats and intimidation made it hard for people to speak freely. The best I could come up with was that people wanted to go home. It was tempting to interpret this as placing peace ahead of justice but this would have been placing words in their mouths.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t have any answers about the best way to get around these problems but this post brilliantly flags up the difficulties.</p>
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		<title>By: Alex de Waal</title>
		<link>http://blogs.ssrc.org/darfur/2009/07/07/on-listening/comment-page-1/#comment-4153</link>
		<dc:creator>Alex de Waal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Jul 2009 11:11:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.ssrc.org/darfur/?p=945#comment-4153</guid>
		<description>Dear Ahmed,

I think the way you portray the &#039;Esh Reagan&#039; naming in South Kordofan is actually quite consistent with my story here. Desperation is not mindlessness, but it does lead to a particular angle on the issue...

Dear Khalid,

The Panel has just given itself another two months, in order to conduct another round of discussions with all the stakeholders, to debate the recommendations. Perhaps not long enough. But so far the Panel has spent more time listening than any other high-level international figures.

Dear Omer,

the point you raise about the northern Sudanese is extremely important. The construction of the Sudanese conflicts as center versus periphery ignores the way in which authoritarian governments have abused the people of the geographical center as well. I was once confronted by a resident of Tutti Island, right in the very center of the center, pointing out the lack of basic services on his island, leading to the conclusion that the center is marginalized too...

By the way, there is a &lt;a href=&quot;http://wrongingrights.blogspot.com/2009/07/things-that-are-awesome-de-waal-on.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;nice commentary on this posting on &#039;Wronging Rights&#039;&lt;/a&gt;. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear Ahmed,</p>
<p>I think the way you portray the &#8216;Esh Reagan&#8217; naming in South Kordofan is actually quite consistent with my story here. Desperation is not mindlessness, but it does lead to a particular angle on the issue&#8230;</p>
<p>Dear Khalid,</p>
<p>The Panel has just given itself another two months, in order to conduct another round of discussions with all the stakeholders, to debate the recommendations. Perhaps not long enough. But so far the Panel has spent more time listening than any other high-level international figures.</p>
<p>Dear Omer,</p>
<p>the point you raise about the northern Sudanese is extremely important. The construction of the Sudanese conflicts as center versus periphery ignores the way in which authoritarian governments have abused the people of the geographical center as well. I was once confronted by a resident of Tutti Island, right in the very center of the center, pointing out the lack of basic services on his island, leading to the conclusion that the center is marginalized too&#8230;</p>
<p>By the way, there is a <a href="http://wrongingrights.blogspot.com/2009/07/things-that-are-awesome-de-waal-on.html" rel="nofollow">nice commentary on this posting on &#8216;Wronging Rights&#8217;</a>.</p>
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		<title>By: Khalid Yousif</title>
		<link>http://blogs.ssrc.org/darfur/2009/07/07/on-listening/comment-page-1/#comment-4138</link>
		<dc:creator>Khalid Yousif</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Jul 2009 13:04:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.ssrc.org/darfur/?p=945#comment-4138</guid>
		<description>I wonder whether the time allocated for the three former presidents  visit to Darfur is enough to enable them show their listening skills?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wonder whether the time allocated for the three former presidents  visit to Darfur is enough to enable them show their listening skills?</p>
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		<title>By: Abdallah Khalil</title>
		<link>http://blogs.ssrc.org/darfur/2009/07/07/on-listening/comment-page-1/#comment-4137</link>
		<dc:creator>Abdallah Khalil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Jul 2009 12:52:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.ssrc.org/darfur/?p=945#comment-4137</guid>
		<description>Back to the issue of the ICC and its case against the Sudanese president which represents the peak of politicization and manipulation of the international justice and the abuse of the international institutions and bodies to realize the ambitions of the influencial global powers. The chief prosecutor of the court is now presenting his case not as a man of law aiming to achieve justice but as an advocate with political agenda. These movements and personal targeting by the prosecutor severely undermine the credibility and neutrality of the court before the world. As the court continue to be directed by persons like Ocampo, president Bashir continue to gain more regional and international support even from court signatories.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Back to the issue of the ICC and its case against the Sudanese president which represents the peak of politicization and manipulation of the international justice and the abuse of the international institutions and bodies to realize the ambitions of the influencial global powers. The chief prosecutor of the court is now presenting his case not as a man of law aiming to achieve justice but as an advocate with political agenda. These movements and personal targeting by the prosecutor severely undermine the credibility and neutrality of the court before the world. As the court continue to be directed by persons like Ocampo, president Bashir continue to gain more regional and international support even from court signatories.</p>
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		<title>By: Abdallah Khalil</title>
		<link>http://blogs.ssrc.org/darfur/2009/07/07/on-listening/comment-page-1/#comment-4132</link>
		<dc:creator>Abdallah Khalil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Jul 2009 10:07:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.ssrc.org/darfur/?p=945#comment-4132</guid>
		<description>Dear Alex. One more funny example to verify that the reaction of the common people to the foreign aids and donations has nothing to do with politics and expectations of donors and aid agencies. In 1985 being aided by USAID relief supplies, some villagers around my home town in Sudan prayed for the God to facilitate a Haj (pilgrimage) to Mekka for Reagan because he had helped them and save thier childern from starving. Such an example can&#039;t be located in a political context or manipulated to carry any meaning that would speak for the purposes of the aid agencies.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear Alex. One more funny example to verify that the reaction of the common people to the foreign aids and donations has nothing to do with politics and expectations of donors and aid agencies. In 1985 being aided by USAID relief supplies, some villagers around my home town in Sudan prayed for the God to facilitate a Haj (pilgrimage) to Mekka for Reagan because he had helped them and save thier childern from starving. Such an example can&#8217;t be located in a political context or manipulated to carry any meaning that would speak for the purposes of the aid agencies.</p>
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		<title>By: Omer</title>
		<link>http://blogs.ssrc.org/darfur/2009/07/07/on-listening/comment-page-1/#comment-4125</link>
		<dc:creator>Omer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Jul 2009 18:33:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.ssrc.org/darfur/?p=945#comment-4125</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s very well that the Darfuri people seek justice and accountability for the crimes that have been allegedly committed against them. However, it is important to note, where are they getting all these assertions that it was President Bashir who personally directed these attacks against their villages, is it based on facts or so called facts they receive from the NGOs and rebel elements who work there. When it came to the Iraq war, most people are bitter towards George Bush and want to see him face justice because he led America into a pointless war not because he personally directed military operations that devastated hundreds as the Prosecutor and some advocacy groups would espouse Bashir has done. 

There&#039;s a saying in most Arabic countries that that if you want to learn the truth about your country,listen to the BBC World Service on the radio. This clearly doesn&#039;t apply anymore even to the general mainstream media due to their lack of objectivity and general journalistic laziness when it comes to the issue of Sudan. People in desperate situation believe irrational claims to quench their bitterness.

The Darfuri people need to take into account that this government (prior to this conflict) has done a lot to develop Darfur despite the sanctions, depleted economy and the horrific war in South. The majority of Sudanese Armed Forces consisted of those same Darfuri tribes the Prosecutor alleges President Bashir tried to exterminate from Sudan. It would&#039;ve been insane therefore for President Bashir to exterminate their tribes during a time in which their men were still needed to fight in the South (2003 when the war started until of the North/South civil war)
I will not discuss the issue of the janjaweed as the main cause of violence because that term has been discussed thoroughly well in this blog.

Even though the main victims of this war have been Darfurians, the issue of justice should also be discussed amongst the Northern Sudanese, a group which has been completely ignored even relegated to a point where people do not know that they exist. What would be the implication if a Northern Sudanese is subjugated to what they believe would be falsified justice. I personally believe that the prosecution of President Bashir will force the Northern Sudanese public,  to become more hostile towards the Darfurians and Southern Sudanese. Many people I&#039;ve come across in Northern Sudan expressed a sense of elation at the prospect of the South seceding in 2011, they have felt that they have carried the back of much of the troubles in Sudan and it would be best if all went their separate ways even Darfur so that no longer will the &quot;evil Arab, Jalaba or devil on horse back&quot; would be blamed for their troubles.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s very well that the Darfuri people seek justice and accountability for the crimes that have been allegedly committed against them. However, it is important to note, where are they getting all these assertions that it was President Bashir who personally directed these attacks against their villages, is it based on facts or so called facts they receive from the NGOs and rebel elements who work there. When it came to the Iraq war, most people are bitter towards George Bush and want to see him face justice because he led America into a pointless war not because he personally directed military operations that devastated hundreds as the Prosecutor and some advocacy groups would espouse Bashir has done. </p>
<p>There&#8217;s a saying in most Arabic countries that that if you want to learn the truth about your country,listen to the BBC World Service on the radio. This clearly doesn&#8217;t apply anymore even to the general mainstream media due to their lack of objectivity and general journalistic laziness when it comes to the issue of Sudan. People in desperate situation believe irrational claims to quench their bitterness.</p>
<p>The Darfuri people need to take into account that this government (prior to this conflict) has done a lot to develop Darfur despite the sanctions, depleted economy and the horrific war in South. The majority of Sudanese Armed Forces consisted of those same Darfuri tribes the Prosecutor alleges President Bashir tried to exterminate from Sudan. It would&#8217;ve been insane therefore for President Bashir to exterminate their tribes during a time in which their men were still needed to fight in the South (2003 when the war started until of the North/South civil war)<br />
I will not discuss the issue of the janjaweed as the main cause of violence because that term has been discussed thoroughly well in this blog.</p>
<p>Even though the main victims of this war have been Darfurians, the issue of justice should also be discussed amongst the Northern Sudanese, a group which has been completely ignored even relegated to a point where people do not know that they exist. What would be the implication if a Northern Sudanese is subjugated to what they believe would be falsified justice. I personally believe that the prosecution of President Bashir will force the Northern Sudanese public,  to become more hostile towards the Darfurians and Southern Sudanese. Many people I&#8217;ve come across in Northern Sudan expressed a sense of elation at the prospect of the South seceding in 2011, they have felt that they have carried the back of much of the troubles in Sudan and it would be best if all went their separate ways even Darfur so that no longer will the &#8220;evil Arab, Jalaba or devil on horse back&#8221; would be blamed for their troubles.</p>
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		<title>By: Ahmed Hassan</title>
		<link>http://blogs.ssrc.org/darfur/2009/07/07/on-listening/comment-page-1/#comment-4122</link>
		<dc:creator>Ahmed Hassan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Jul 2009 13:25:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.ssrc.org/darfur/?p=945#comment-4122</guid>
		<description>Dear Alex,

Thanks for your article.

Just few comments to make before I rush to the conflict zone in the North of Sri Lanka.

1. I think that most of the interviews are conducted to give an impression of a fact finding process while the interviewers already had in mind the answers they want and the answers they are going to get. It is naive to assume that is an act of &quot;not knowing the rules of interview&quot;. Aid agencies has developed very sophisticated tools for rapid participatory appraisal that are meant to extract most accurate information with the least bias and external influence. However, as I guess, the intention wan not to find facts, rather than to manipulate facts to serve the interests of the interviewers.

2. Again, with regards to Esh Reagan, I happen to be in South kordofan at that time, and believe me, when people gave the names to their children after Reagan, that was not a simple act of desperation or ignorance or that they were mislead. Even if you can afford to buy food, still you may die of hunger since the issue was the lack of any supply of food. You can imagine what it meant to get the USAID food at that critical point of time to the families that were watching their kids starving to death while the government was continuing its denial and claims that it is a &quot;food gap&quot; and not a &quot;famine&quot;. With all my criticism to the politics of international aid, nonetheless, I think those who claim that Esh Reagan was small factor in saving the situation, are really suffering from a serious short memory issue, and I just do not want to imagine, what price in lives we could have paid to reach the rainy season without Esh Reagan. Let us just try not to undermine the intelligence of these people, and what it meant to them, when they give a name to their children. It is normal for the Sudanese sometimes to play ignorant to make fun of things and situations, this is of course notwithstanding the fact that some people might not have known who Reagan was at the initial stage of the relief operation.

3. With the same token, I don&#039;t see any act of desperation when Darfurians give OKambo name to their children. The world is becoming a very small village. Even the IDPs have a good access to information from radio, political gossips and lots of other sources, and are quite aware of who is Okambo and what he represents for them. For me, it is an absolute act of gratitude to the person, and the institutions behind him, who is trying very hard to bring to justice the persons responsible for their current misery and sufferings.  And Alex, how realistic is it to expect these people to talk to you about their own wishes to bring Beshir to Justice? that would be asking too much of them and they have already expressed that wish in their own indirect ways by supporting the ICC through giving Okambo name to their kids. There is a lot of intimidation and fear, and it justifies why they describe Beshir &quot;payment&quot; in that way.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear Alex,</p>
<p>Thanks for your article.</p>
<p>Just few comments to make before I rush to the conflict zone in the North of Sri Lanka.</p>
<p>1. I think that most of the interviews are conducted to give an impression of a fact finding process while the interviewers already had in mind the answers they want and the answers they are going to get. It is naive to assume that is an act of &#8220;not knowing the rules of interview&#8221;. Aid agencies has developed very sophisticated tools for rapid participatory appraisal that are meant to extract most accurate information with the least bias and external influence. However, as I guess, the intention wan not to find facts, rather than to manipulate facts to serve the interests of the interviewers.</p>
<p>2. Again, with regards to Esh Reagan, I happen to be in South kordofan at that time, and believe me, when people gave the names to their children after Reagan, that was not a simple act of desperation or ignorance or that they were mislead. Even if you can afford to buy food, still you may die of hunger since the issue was the lack of any supply of food. You can imagine what it meant to get the USAID food at that critical point of time to the families that were watching their kids starving to death while the government was continuing its denial and claims that it is a &#8220;food gap&#8221; and not a &#8220;famine&#8221;. With all my criticism to the politics of international aid, nonetheless, I think those who claim that Esh Reagan was small factor in saving the situation, are really suffering from a serious short memory issue, and I just do not want to imagine, what price in lives we could have paid to reach the rainy season without Esh Reagan. Let us just try not to undermine the intelligence of these people, and what it meant to them, when they give a name to their children. It is normal for the Sudanese sometimes to play ignorant to make fun of things and situations, this is of course notwithstanding the fact that some people might not have known who Reagan was at the initial stage of the relief operation.</p>
<p>3. With the same token, I don&#8217;t see any act of desperation when Darfurians give OKambo name to their children. The world is becoming a very small village. Even the IDPs have a good access to information from radio, political gossips and lots of other sources, and are quite aware of who is Okambo and what he represents for them. For me, it is an absolute act of gratitude to the person, and the institutions behind him, who is trying very hard to bring to justice the persons responsible for their current misery and sufferings.  And Alex, how realistic is it to expect these people to talk to you about their own wishes to bring Beshir to Justice? that would be asking too much of them and they have already expressed that wish in their own indirect ways by supporting the ICC through giving Okambo name to their kids. There is a lot of intimidation and fear, and it justifies why they describe Beshir &#8220;payment&#8221; in that way.</p>
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		<title>By: Alex de Waal</title>
		<link>http://blogs.ssrc.org/darfur/2009/07/07/on-listening/comment-page-1/#comment-4121</link>
		<dc:creator>Alex de Waal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Jul 2009 12:22:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.ssrc.org/darfur/?p=945#comment-4121</guid>
		<description>It is correct that recently, &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.sudantribune.com/spip.php?article31398&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Mia Farrow revealed&lt;/a&gt; that dozens of children born in refugee camps in Chad had been named after the Prosecutor of the ICC, “Okambo.” 

It reminded me of the &lt;a href=&quot;http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/1741171.stm&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;BBC report&lt;/a&gt; that two thirds of the babies born in some towns in northern Nigeria in the months after September 11 were named “Osama”.

Both episodes reveal much about the desperation that ordinary people feel in these deprived and powerless parts of the world. Neither act of naming should be read as a political manifesto.

Back in 1985, the relief food was called “Reagan” but the people who ate it weren’t always well-informed about the donor: “Who is this Reagan?” asked one, “he ought to be promoted!” Another suggested that Reagan was “King of the Jews.” I was introduced to several infants called “Reagan” and was told there were many more. What happened to them? I have yet to find a 25-year-old Darfurian bearing the name.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is correct that recently, <a href="http://www.sudantribune.com/spip.php?article31398" rel="nofollow">Mia Farrow revealed</a> that dozens of children born in refugee camps in Chad had been named after the Prosecutor of the ICC, “Okambo.” </p>
<p>It reminded me of the <a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/1741171.stm" rel="nofollow">BBC report</a> that two thirds of the babies born in some towns in northern Nigeria in the months after September 11 were named “Osama”.</p>
<p>Both episodes reveal much about the desperation that ordinary people feel in these deprived and powerless parts of the world. Neither act of naming should be read as a political manifesto.</p>
<p>Back in 1985, the relief food was called “Reagan” but the people who ate it weren’t always well-informed about the donor: “Who is this Reagan?” asked one, “he ought to be promoted!” Another suggested that Reagan was “King of the Jews.” I was introduced to several infants called “Reagan” and was told there were many more. What happened to them? I have yet to find a 25-year-old Darfurian bearing the name.</p>
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		<title>By: Helena V.</title>
		<link>http://blogs.ssrc.org/darfur/2009/07/07/on-listening/comment-page-1/#comment-4119</link>
		<dc:creator>Helena V.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Jul 2009 12:05:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.ssrc.org/darfur/?p=945#comment-4119</guid>
		<description>I think that if Darfuri parents name thier children Ocampo this tells us all we need to know about what they really think.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think that if Darfuri parents name thier children Ocampo this tells us all we need to know about what they really think.</p>
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